Other Games Tell me about Symbaroum

#1
Tell me about Symbaroum, and in particular about the default campaign.

I know it’s sold as Dark, Gritty and Deadly, but would you describe the setting a nuanced? Is there a clear demarcation between light and dark or is the morality of the setting cast in shades of grey? What about the main campaign? Is it combat heavy? Exploratory? Political?

How about the system? Is it rules heavy or rules light? Does it support the setting?

Magic? Does it feel mysterious ? How do the rules support magic? How repeatable and safe? What is the place of magic within the setting? Is it commonplace or unusual and surprising? How does the common man respond to the arcane?

Would you recommend the default system or would you recommend waiting for the 5e version (due end of June)?
 

Guvnor

The Guvnor
Staff member
#2
Nuanced delightfully. Not only every shade of grey but different shades as time moved on.
Players seem free to make their own choices, and the society responds in multiple and different ways.
Different groups with different agendas exist, and individuals within those groups may have both public and private divergent agendas.
NPCs can be swayed.
Things go wrong, characters die, moral choices have consequences.
Magic is frighteningly corrupting and yet in the end irresistible. It's IMHO a very nice simple system that really makes one think very hard about using it. Magic is a BAD THING and yet.... So appealing.
The denizens of the Woods are hostile and deeply dangerous.
You may think you are on the side of Good, but then you realise.. just what is Good here?

System is not heavy, it's very straightforward.
It's unforgiving and scary to survive at first but eventually you struggle to a point of mastery in niches.
It's a sort of d20 BRP. There are bits that might be a bit broken but talk to @Vodkashok about that.

I think a 5e version would work but would require full on use of the gritty rules from the DMG and a way to make magic corrupting, dangerous and unwise. Not having read the 5e but having played the core ruleset for years and I mean every week for years, it's 70% good, and 100% the best fit.

@paulbaldowski has published a lot of advice, rules, analysis of Symbaroum and he and @Vodkashok are the next people to turn to. Mr.Rowlands and Mr.Watson are also experts but not on this BBS, but I think you know at least one of them.

It's a great game and just writing this post makes me want to play it all again, make different moral choices, and descend under the dark cover of the Davokar again....

Shout out to @First Age who was the first one to scare me witless in the Davokar... but @Vodkashok really corrupted me.
 

First Age

D&D h@ck3r and Hopepunk
#3
Nuanced delightfully. Not only every shade of grey but different shades as time moved on.
Players seem free to make their own choices, and the society responds in multiple and different ways.
Different groups with different agendas exist, and individuals within those groups may have both public and private divergent agendas.
NPCs can be swayed.
Things go wrong, characters die, moral choices have consequences.
Magic is frighteningly corrupting and yet in the end irresistible. It's IMHO a very nice simple system that really makes one think very hard about using it. Magic is a BAD THING and yet.... So appealing.
The denizens of the Woods are hostile and deeply dangerous.
You may think you are on the side of Good, but then you realise.. just what is Good here?

System is not heavy, it's very straightforward.
It's unforgiving and scary to survive at first but eventually you struggle to a point of mastery in niches.
It's a sort of d20 BRP. There are bits that might be a bit broken but talk to @Vodkashok about that.

I think a 5e version would work but would require full on use of the gritty rules from the DMG and a way to make magic corrupting, dangerous and unwise. Not having read the 5e but having played the core ruleset for years and I mean every week for years, it's 70% good, and 100% the best fit.

@paulbaldowski has published a lot of advice, rules, analysis of Symbaroum and he and @Vodkashok are the next people to turn to. Mr.Rowlands and Mr.Watson are also experts but not on this BBS, but I think you know at least one of them.

It's a great game and just writing this post makes me want to play it all again, make different moral choices, and descend under the dark cover of the Davokar again....

Shout out to @First Age who was the first one to scare me witless in the Davokar... but @Vodkashok really corrupted me.
Had I had had more time...

Ha, reading your post makes me want to get it out for extended play too!
 
#5
So how would a Symbaroum game compare to a Forbidden Lands game? It feels like they would be at least similar in feel? What differentiates these two systems and settings?
 
#6
I'll add a long reply when I get the chance. However, in short, the system feeds the feel of the setting but has some cons at high level play. The setting is sublime. The extended Throne of Thorns campaign is up there with the old classics.
 
#7
Tell me about Symbaroum, and in particular about the default campaign.

I know it’s sold as Dark, Gritty and Deadly, but would you describe the setting a nuanced? Is there a clear demarcation between light and dark or is the morality of the setting cast in shades of grey? What about the main campaign? Is it combat heavy? Exploratory? Political?

How about the system? Is it rules heavy or rules light? Does it support the setting?

Magic? Does it feel mysterious ? How do the rules support magic? How repeatable and safe? What is the place of magic within the setting? Is it commonplace or unusual and surprising? How does the common man respond to the arcane?

Would you recommend the default system or would you recommend waiting for the 5e version (due end of June)?
OK. So here's my perspective - the pros and the cons.

tl;dr - I think Symbaroum is bloody great, but sometimes you have to work together to get there

The setting is about as nuanced as you can get really. It's swirls of grey, rather than shades. The basic set-up runs imperialist expansion vs native traditions, organised religion vs free religion, monarchy vs representation and then you have the overarching conflict between nature and progress, represented by the forest itself. It's brilliant and you never know quite who the goodies and baddies are - swirls of grey. There is a downside to this; it has a SHIT TON of moving campaign parts to deal with. Like, a dozen barbarian tribes, each with their own motivations and allegiances. See also Noble Houses and human organisations, multiple church factions etc. There are maybe a dozen central power groups in the main campaign, who plot and scheme against each other - some from the darkness, some more overtly. It's ... complex.

I ran the introductory adventure, into the Copper Crown mini-campaign and then into the Throne of Thorns books 1-4 and it took us over 3 years to complete. There's a LOT of material there, depending on how thorough you want to go. Personally, I would do it all, as it's all part of that wider tapestry of the game and the later callbacks are well worth it. There are some awesome set-pieces too. The other thing to mention is that the campaign onion-skins the setting really well. The intro gets you over the Mountains (you'll see) and introduced to the premise. The Copper Crown introduces Thistle Hold and the Davokar and some REALLY BAD THINGS. Then the first book of tToT is set in Thistle Hold. After that, it's more barbarian centric, then to the capital and then deep into the forest. The fifth book, which I have not ran, apparently takes you back over the mountains. Fools.

By the nature of the game, it is balanced between exploration (a major activity of the setting is hunting for treasure in the increasingly dangerous Davokar forest), politics (it just happens!) and combat. Combat can be absolutely deadly, and does benefit from the mastery that the system allows. And you need that later on, but that's OK, because by the time you get there, you will know all of the tricks.

Honestly, I have never seen a game where magic and creatures caused so much angst and dismay. Nothing is familiar, everything is potentially deadly, all spells can turn you into an Ood (at least temporarily) - its great. When players won't touch a magic artifact and would rather it was burned and buried for safety, you know its worked.

Magic... ah magic. In retrospect, magic in Symbaroum is like having very niche super powers. The spell lists aren't extensive, but each spell has three levels; powerful, fucking powerful and OH MY GOD. Dealing with the OMG spells, rules as written, can be a little straining as certain ones can simply nullify combat encounters completely. It's also a game where mind control is a standard option....

Within the setting there are various forms of magic - all powerful, all dangerous and all repeatable if you have the guts. You have the Ordo (Mages), the Church ('Priests'), Mystics (Witches - and witches are a big part of the setting!) and some others. Each has their own speciality. Magic is intrinsic to the setting (see below)

The system is ... a system. You're rolling a d20 vs a Stat. Nothing complicated at all, once you understand it. IIRC it is also an asymmetrical system where the GM rolls no dice. The PCs roll to hit, or to avoid being hit. Trust me - that brain space is a godsend for the GM.

That system or 5e? For me, it comes down to the magic. I looked at the earliest copies of the 5e version, saw spell lists and shuddered. That's not the Symbaroum way. Studying for months to get that one iconic spell, is Symbaroum. Having a shopping list of spells? Options? Nah! Symbaroum is more akin to Runequest Sorcery iirc, in that you have access to a few powerful spells and some minor ones.

So, overall - it's a challenging setting and campaign that is wonderfully rewarding to run and play. I recommend.
 

Guvnor

The Guvnor
Staff member
#8
Oh god I miss it.
I can't speak to FL from play, but there may well be some resonance, save that FL seemed more an auto-generated old skool hex crawl and Symbaroum's main campaign isnt
 
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