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Other Games Babylon 5 quandary

dpmcalister

dpmcalister

Acolyte
I find myself in a bit of a quandary and hope that the good folk of the Tavern can help me out. I'm writing a scenario to run at Con-Tingency set in the Babylon 5 universe as a test of the waters for running The Ragged Edge (which was originally written for Mongoose's 2nd Edition of their d20 ruleset). I have all of the published Babylon 5 RPGs in print so my quandary is what rule set to use. There are a few options...

Firstly, lets throw out the options I know I don't want to use:
  • The Babylon Project: The first Babylon 5 RPG and I dived into it when it was first released but, oh my, is it a missed opportunity!
  • Babylon 5 1st edition: Not a bad attempt by Mongoose but it's d20 based and, having just finished playing a D&D 3.5e campaign I think something a bit lighter would be best.
  • Babylon 5 2nd edition: An improvement on 1st edition and the edition The Ragged Edge was written for but, again, d20 based.
This leaves me with:
  • The Universe of Babylon 5: Powered by Mongoose Traveller 1st edition. The only downside here is that I don't have High Guard (but can resolve that easily enough)
Other options include:
  • Mongoose Traveller 2nd edition: using the 1st edition setting books but updating it all to 2nd edition. The plus side here is that it's a game that's currently in print so easy for my players to get copies if they want.
  • Creating a conversion to Savage Worlds Adventure Edition with the Science Fiction Companion: Would only need some basic conversion and the use of Setting Rules such as Gritty Damage.
So, my good friends. What would you do?
 
I'd use The Universe of Babylon 5 with MgT2e personally.

However, you can nuance that. You can run with the 2e engine and fall back to ship combat in 1e rules if you prefer that. I did that for quite a while with Traveller. Functionally, there's not a huge difference in most of the areas beyond ships/vehicles.

Of course, there are two variations on 2e. The initial release and the 2022 update. Bizarrely, the broken dogfighting rules in the first iteration of 2e may actually be more appropriate than the 2022 version.

However, I'm biased and would always have said Traveller. There's probably less work converting to 2e than Savage Worlds.
 
Great Maker! I also have every iteration of the B5 RPG and I've even toyed with the idea of running a game using Fate.

I have to agree with you, The Babylon Project was a missed opportunity, and went under the radar for a lot of people. I picked up a copy in my local bookshop years ago, not long after it was first published.

Out of the two d20 versions, the second edition was probably the best. However, the Mongoose books are great for source material, with very detailed breakdowns of each season of the show having its own book.

I have a copy of The Universe of Babylon 5 as well and all the sourcebooks. My opinion is that unless you're a diehard Traveller buff, you may struggle to run it. I personally didn't think the Traveller system was a great fit for B5. I should know, as I ran a one shot and the players hated it. However, I will add that Dom does make a very good point when he says there's probably less work converting to Traveller 2e than Savage Worlds.

My opinion: If you and your players like Fate, there's nothing stopping you using the Mongoose books to run a B5 Fate game.
 
Well, as you can imagine, I might have some left-field ideas. It really depends on what sort of game you're going to run in the B5 universe. Obviously, if you're running an unaffiliated free trader ship doing contracts, shuttling archeologists to dodgy planets and smuggling Drazi dissidents to safe haven on B5, then Traveller of some sort might be your game of choice. If you're looking for a lot more action, with PPGs boinking off all over the place, the Savage Worlds might be it, especially as it's one of your go-tos. 'Shaken' representing the ubiquitous 'shoulder shot' seems a match made in Heaven.

However, the very best game to capture the political intrigue of the station and the ambassadors is Hot War/Cold City. This is especially so when you consider the 2e version where your have 'The City' as a factor, so you could have 'The Shadow War' or 'Nightwatch' as a factor instead. The Trust mechanics are sublime for emulating the backstabbing nature of B5.

As I was thinking about this - and it would require a shedload of work - for a heavily espionage setting (which I believe The Ragged Edge is) then what about a deep hack of Nights Black Agents? The Conspyramid isn't vampires, but it is the deeply-entrenched roots of the Shadows and their agents. The Shadows themselves represent those 'impossible to defeat' vampires that you build towards. The system reflects heroic competence in the technical side of things and with a little blending with the Double Tap supplement and the reframing of some Cherries, I reckon it would work!

@Nathan 's suggestion of Fate is a good shout as well, if you want something that can cover all the bases.
 
Some great suggestions here. Going back a little to The Ragged Edge, yes, the feel I'm hoping for is more investigative than aggressive. Of course combat may occur but I don't plan on it being the go-to solution for things. It is one of the things that pulls me away from Savage Worlds.
  • Fate is a non-starter I'm afraid as I've never been able to grok the system enough to run it.
  • Scum and Villainy is a good call from what I've heard about it but I don't actually own a copy myself and would prefer to keep my monetary outlay down (yes, I know that wasn't part of the brief - that's my bad ;)).
  • Hot War/Cold City is intriguing as well. I have the first edition in PDF from all those years ago but haven't played it so not sure how I could make it work.
  • Nights Black Agents really has me thinking though. It's been a while since I've played that but I really liked the campaign I played. Would it be too much hacking though?
I knew I'd get some good suggestions here and they've definitely given me more to think on. Especially NBA. That's a late entry that deserves more thought. I think that's this weekend's reading/thinking sorted.
 
Personally I'd go with Savage Worlds, but that won't surprise anyone. If you're worried about combat being too crunchy, throw out all the Situational Rules and just go with the basics. As it's a one-shot, you could do personal and/or ship combat as a mixture of Dangerous Quick Encounters and Dramatic Tasks; I wouldn't recommend that for a campaign as it makes a lot of Edges less useful, but that doesn't matter if the PCs don't advance.

If you're going heavy on treachery, consider the Betrayal setting rule from the Fantasy/SF Companions; essentially this means you can't use Bennies to soak damage caused by The Drop or resist a Knockout Blow.

If you're steering away from combat, you may find Persuasion becomes overpowered; I deal with that by finding reasons to use Performance, Intimidation or Taunt instead depending on how the PCs approach things.

If you go down the SW route, it'll be tempting to write loads of conversion rules, I'd advise using trappings instead. Call the lasers in the core rules PPGs rather than make up new stats. Create most alien races using what's in the core rules; for example, Centauri are stated in the series to be so close to human that for a while they thought Earth was one of their lost colonies; yes they're supposed to have hidden tentacles, but IIRC those are only used once and then as a way of cheating at cards - no different mechanically from any other kind of cheating.

More than you wanted to know I'm sure!
 
Interestingly I watched B5 for about four episodes and said "Well that's Traveller then.." I still think so actually. Traveller has the required skills, it's gritty but a PPG exchange in the corridors would zip along fine. It has careers that map exactly into B5 cultures. Dogfighting with star furies might suit better, and I have never really found a fleet combat solution that is fast. (But Power Projection is a lovely evening's wargame.)
 
This thread has not helped me at all. I'm now totally locked in, in the back side of my brain, to doing Nights Shadow's Dark Agents for a 2026 convention. I'm backing up on games I might run at North Star at this rate!
 
Neil Gow said:
This thread has not helped me at all. I'm now totally locked in, in the back side of my brain, to doing Nights Shadow's Dark Agents for a 2026 convention. I'm backing up on games I might run at North Star at this rate!
Click to expand...
I thought your idea of using Cold City/Hot War was inspired as well.
 
Neil Gow said:
This thread has not helped me at all. I'm now totally locked in, in the back side of my brain, to doing Nights Shadow's Dark Agents for a 2026 convention. I'm backing up on games I might run at North Star at this rate!
Click to expand...
Me me me!! Play test it with Andrew and Ash and Robbie and I!!
 
Guvnor said:
Interestingly I watched B5 for about four episodes and said "Well that's Traveller then.." I still think so actually. Traveller has the required skills, it's gritty but a PPG exchange in the corridors would zip along fine. It has careers that map exactly into B5 cultures. Dogfighting with star furies might suit better, and I have never really found a fleet combat solution that is fast. (But Power Projection is a lovely evening's wargame.)
Click to expand...
I ran B5 under T4 for a while. Traveller is a really good fit; I think that is because both draw heavily on the same set of tropes.
 
I think I would use Traveller since I am a trad referee, I own the Mongoose version (and have the no background versions), and I think SWADE is too heroic and OTT.

However I would love to play the more conspiracy based games suggested.
 
Neil Gow said:
This thread has not helped me at all. I'm now totally locked in, in the back side of my brain, to doing Nights Shadow's Dark Agents for a 2026 convention. I'm backing up on games I might run at North Star at this rate!
Click to expand...
Oh, can I play? :D
 
I was reading Nights Black Agents last night and think it is a great idea but, perhaps, beyond my hacking skills. I think, after all, I'm going to stick with Traveller.

However, the responses here (and so quickly as well) have been very good at helping me come to this decision.

And, if I do come to North Star (given that Seven Hills isn't running next year), I promise to run the adventure I'm going to run at Con-Tingency :)
 
Me me me! As if North Star won't be wall to wall excellent!
 
Just skimmed the Universe of Babylon 5 and the Warships of Babylon 5. I'd forgotten just how bad Mongoose's old production values were then.

You should be able to use the character generation pretty much as written for Mongoose Traveller 2e.

The skill name differences from MgT1e to 2e are here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Zt6dyQvG9RpOj2EZEW-gx7n3YWFfAa5pDFCGtWHt4EE/edit?usp=sharing

The equipment/damage, combat should map over fine.

I'd probably initially use the MgT 1e starship design and combat, but I think that it should be pretty simple to convert the ship design sequence over but I've not the time to do it at the moment. Effectively, the big changes are all called out and you'd need to map across but I'd stick with it as written for ease.
 
Thanks @Nathan I think I have that one already (by Markus Finster?)
 
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